However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. This is one of the better steels on the market. Hammering through hickory, digging at roots in sandy soil, and cutting around bone did nothing to chip, dent, or roll the edge of my 3V knives. The steel loses some of the chromium in solution for corrosion resistance to form these fine carbides for hardness. Nitro V vs 14C28N Last but not least, 14C28N contains comparatively more vanadium elements which makes the carbides more harder and strong, which gives 14C28N a better edge retention. The D2 steel compares nicely with 14c28n steel in terms of edge retention, as it's quite hard as well. Is there a reason SG2/R2 are not included in the lineup, despite being one of the most popular ones? However, it is not really known how many different companies are making 8Cr13MoV (or at least I dont know), it could be that it is one manufacturer that is dominating the market. They have many similarities, including their high hardness, strength, and wear resistance. 14C28N Vs D2 . Its probably in between Vanadis 8 and 10V. But its lightyears ahead of the alternatives, specifically titanium-bladed knives. The hardenable grade of titanium (Beta C Titanium) reaches up to 45 or so rc. Question. These steels are perfect for thin edges and high hardness. Even though it has very high hardness, its also still decently resistant to corrosion and quite tough. See the chart below showing 52100 steel that was overaustenitized (unintentionally) by a knifemaker that sent me specimens for toughness testing. But which? Distilled water can separate steels that are stainless vs those that are not. So, its hard steel is easy to sharpen. This steel, as the name implies has a professional styling to it. This is a bit of a guess because I cant find un-notched Charpy data on it. Even people that are aware of your work still do knife rankings and pass them off as steel rankings. Even premium steels can have poor performance with poor heat treatment. In general, the more carbide the steel has and the larger the carbides the lower is the toughness. 14C28N steel is known to offer among the best if not the best toughness in knife steels out there. I can also say from personal experience that marine grade plywood will chaw up your saw blade and battery a lot quicker than standard plywood, but that probably says more about the glue that was used than the wood. Cronidur 30 In a pocket knife the total amount of steel is rather small. My other knives are a Real Steel E77 8cr14mov. And Michael Fitzgerald, Tim Marais, and Head VI for increasing their contributions. If you want a sharp knife for outdoor or indoor use, D2 knives will not disappoint you. Your email address will not be published. If the steel is overheated in austenitizing, very large reductions in toughness are possible. Read more about how it works here. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. H1 I did a test with knives in 440A (stainless), D2 (high alloy steel with some corrosion resistance), and 1095 (no corrosion resistance). Thats why it easy to work and looks nice. Therefore, ensure to wash and dry your knives after use to keep the rust away. That old pine in particular is some crazy hard stuff. One argument I see consistently leveled against 8Cr13MoV compared to AUS-8 is that of the consistency of the composition. As of November 2020, this is Spyderco-exclusive steel. Each of these contributes to a knifes overall performance. FRN If you are looking for a high-end knife on a budget, the varieties of both steel will serve you. Wear resistance, be it high or low, is the most significant determining factor in ease of sharpening. Below shows pictures of a 61 Rc knife that was impacted with a 3/16 rod at different energy levels. Having 1.5% Carbon does that. I reserve the right to change my ratings based on new information. Maxamet and Rex 121 are so extreme in terms of wear resistance and edge retention that I rated them higher than 10 because otherwise it throws off the ratings for everything else. 14C28N is a type of high-performance stainless steel used in knife-making. Both knives were chopped through a nail. AEB-L The studies confirmed that the primary controlling factors are hardness of the steel, volume of carbides, and hardness of the carbides. Mid-Range Steels 154CM D2 N690 VG-10 CTS BD1N 14C28N A2 1095 O1 H1 Budget Steels 440C CTS-BD1 440A 420 8Cr13MoV AUS-8 The Steels Should you continue to scroll further, you may find yourself lost in a seemingly endless list of knife steel wealth and knowledge. There are a few aspects to your question, I think. Thank you. . High Alloy Tool Steels and High Speed Steels. On the other hand, Speed safe assisted opening allows for easy blade deployment with the use of a simple pull back on the ambidextrous flipper. D2 steel is more durable than 14C28N, but it scores lower in terms of ease of sharpening and corrosion resistance. 14C28N vs D2: Overview 14C28N steel is a high-end stainless steel created by the Swedish company Sandvik. Its a very hard steel and is exceptionally difficult to sharpen. Read more. W-2 Knife Steel Benefiting from 0.2 percent vanadium content, W-2 holds an edge well and is reasonably tough. Its so high in hardness that Maxamet knives usually ship with desiccating packages. With toughness it is a bit harder to link to only one article as I dont really have a summary of all of the toughness testing that we have done. The steel comes with increased wear and abrasion resistance properties. 14C28N, designed by Sandvik at Kershaw's behest to have the edge properties of 13C26 but with increased corrosion resistance by adding nitrogen and chromium. Is there some way we might predict the relative "effective toughness" of different steels at different hardness and at different edge angles? Therefore you will use it for a long time without requiring frequent sharpening. AEB-L is rarely found on production knives but can be found on custom knives easily. Here, read on for an in-depth look at common knife steels as well as the best knife steels around. There is buzz out there but I havent seen anything solid yet in the world of steel. Choose a factor below to start sorting. Rex 45 Therefore I will be showing the ratings of the steels graphically in terms of toughness-edge retention balance, where steels that are high and to the right have the best combination, and you choose the steel based on the level of toughness or edge retention necessary for the knife. I have an article that lists off the major mistakes often made in heat treating. Steels that can be high in edge retention and toughness are desirable for general use knives. my understanding is that wood is not a particularly abrasive material and a plane is more of a push cut action than a slicing action so I would have though edge stability and sharpness is more important than edge retention meaning ABE-L should work pretty well. Knives are one of our oldest tools, so it makes sense that they have evolved into thousands of styles since the first person chipped one out of stone. Recommendations are welcome, If you are cutting against metal I would maybe try K390 in a Spyderco or an S110V knife if you need stainless. Are you familiar with anything similar on the metallurgy/knife steel side of things? BD1 is excellent budget steel, very similar in composition and performance to GIN-1, a Japanese steel used a decade ago by Spyderco. The material increase machinability and strength. Chris Reeves version, which is about two points less hard than others, is quite good. If youre looking for all all-around best knife steel, youd be hard-pressed to find one better than Bohler Uddeholm M390. Heat treatment and edge geometry can mean more for knife performance than the specific steel used in the knife. Ive seen more talk and some articles regarding the use of AI to come up with new potential drug molecules, polymeric materials, etc. If the properties of a knife meet your knife needs and it has the above characteristics, then it qualifies as a quality knife. I have not provided a rating for ease in sharpening. But keep in mind that no steel is perfect for everything. If you shop for knives based strictly on steel, you might be disappointed. the more complex fracture toughness at least lets you make some estimates in this sence. ApexUltra is a steel that we are working on that had excellent properties in small batch production (50 lbs). For instance, if a 35 edge in 1095 steel at 58 Rc provides appropriate toughness for planing hardwood, what edge angle in, say, AEB-L at 62 Rc might give us a comparable effective toughness? Ease of sharpening refers to how difficult it is to remove material with a sharpening stone. AEB-L is a non-powder steel produced by Swedish steelmaker Uddeholm. Between the assisted open, weird looking texture designs, and the stainless steel handle, the Cannonball has a lot of features I don't normally like, but even I have to admit it's a good design for the price. https://i0.wp.com/knifesteelnerds.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/stainless-toughness-10-19-21.jpg?w=757&ssl=1 Steel high in carbides cant be stamped out; it must be cut by a waterjet or laser, which takes time and is more expensive. But it doesnt have great wear resistance and thus doesnt hold an edge particularly well. Jesse Jarosz, a custom maker from Montana, regularly uses AEB-L. as you mentioned catra indicates the edge angle as being by far the most important variable. Being stainless is not an on or off property, and some stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion than others. It is a Sandvik stainless steel that originally developed for razor blades. This is about comparing steels to each other rather than a limitation of an individual steel. I have a question about the chart So we get back to my original question: if a D2 planer blade at 58 Rc and the associated level of toughness will perform acceptably with a 30 sharpening angle, is there some way to extrapolate at what sharpening angle another steel with higher toughness might perform equally well? you can easily buy a $500 knive made out of 14c28n, which has nothing in it besides cr and a trace of ni. It has a lower hardness and edge retention as compared to the 9Cr knife. I also added a few more steels in this study. edge retention can vary by several orders of magnitude depending on what happens to the burr. The ratings in this article rate ease of sharpening primarily based on wear resistance, but if a knife is difficult to sharpen, there may be other factors in play. I would suggest adding a second axis to the ratings charts that show the data values that the 0-10 ratings are based on (unnotched charpy impact energy, 1% saltwater , Total cards cut, etc.). No idea. Lately Ive been edcing one of those instead of a nice folder. its like with cars, most of them are not a corvette or a porsche. Thats a tiny difference, but in combination with the 420HC disparity, it conceals a full point difference between 420HC and 440A: 7.6 vs. 8.6. I was recommended the Rat 1 in D2 and I also found that I really like the design of the Ruike p135 and p128. Below, weve listed some of the attributes you might want out of your steel and given some examples in both the more expensive powder metallurgy steels and more affordable conventionally produced steels. Poor availability may effectively increase cost of steel. Importing steel from Europe to the USA, or vice versa, generally increases the cost. To reiterate the clearer part, I wonder if toughness increases faster than edge retention decreases as an edge gets thicker. . Also D2 is not stainless as at least 5% of its chromium is tied up in carbides where it doesnt help prevent corrosion. in the correct place for the stainless-toughness-edge-retention graphic? Let the job at hand be your guide. 14C28N steel, also known as Sandvik 14C28N, is stainless steel made by Sandvik, a European steel company in Sweden. what does a cvn of 40 v.s 20 mean? -> Maybe prequenched 14c28n could be a little tougher than AEB-L? Hi Larrin Youve occasionally mentioned cryo treatment in your posts, including here with LC200N. 1) the cvn number is just that, a number. CROMOVA This makes for a great slicing knife and a perfect steel, in my opinion, for a regular-use, everyday-carry folder. D2 is another medium-range tool steel. 14C28N is offered on midprice knives and is one of the better steels on a dollar-for-dollar basis. Not every wood is soft pine. I have a few examples below for steels that I have ranges of hardness tested for both toughness and edge retention. Knifemakers use dozens of steel types to create knife blades. 1. Read more. Also Mo additions improve corrosion resistance for a given amount of chromium. Steel produced in China is generally less expensive. Contact me if you have any questions or input! Vanax gives up some toughness and hardness vs MagnaCut for saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. 1.4116 Does that mean that companies like Tops, Kabar and ESEE would be better off using 420HC instead of 1095 on their fixed blades? When the blade gets messed up I just replace it. D2 steel knives, on the other hand, offer great edge retention and wear resistance, which are properties of tool steels.14C28ND2Toughness93.5Edge retention35Corrosion resistance8.54.5Ease of sharpeningEasyModerately Hard14C28N vs D2. VG-10 steel also has the same level of toughness as 14C28N and the same level of corrosion resistance. The main downside is the steel is more difficult to heat treat and can't go harder than about 60 or perhaps 61 Rc. As a result, there are no production knives with REX 121 steel, though Ferrum Forge used the steel early on in its custom knives and a Kickstarter knife from the Creely Brothers. Aluminum oxide is used in most common sharpening stones and it is softer than vanadium carbide, which makes sharpening high vanadium steels more difficult. Spyderco has their own salt spray test setup to determine the corrosion resistance and they determined that MagnaCut is sufficiently corrosion resistant for their salt series of knives. Do honing steels as used on kitchen knives actually do anything useful? Thanks for the Article Larrin, HA! I know it's much more stainless and corrosion resisitance, but what about wear resistance? Everything you need to know to buy the right knife for the job. Thanks! S110V has improved corrosion resistance at the cost of some toughness compared to S90V. Should have a first draft by the end of next week. While 9Cr18MoV steel is highly corrosion resistant due to the addition of Cr, and Mo. However the 14c28n steel would be great for an EDC knife with typical usage. Only a few years ago Elmax was pricey, but competition has driven it down to reasonable levels, making it a decent value. It would be great if you wrote a basic rundown of cryo treatment of knife steels, whats involved, the effects, interactions with other treatments like tempers, alloys that benefit the most, etc. This can turn the ultra corrosion resistant LC200N or Vanax into a normal stainless steel that will rust with only 1% saltwater. Hi Larrin Your estimate of 420HCs corrosion resistance is different here than in your October, 2019 post on corrosion resistance testing: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/ There is one exception: Bucks 420HC (Buck and onlyBuck) is produced using a proprietary heat treatment. Many steel ratings articles pay lip service to the importance of heat treatment without providing examples. In its most basic form, steel is just iron and carbon, but people have been studying, experimenting with, and perfecting steel with other elements for specific applications for millennia. Low Carbon steels like AEB-L wont hold up to wood cutting even though it can hit 64 hard, it just doesnt have enough Carbon. Its used for combat knives, bushcrafting knives, and other applications where having a supertough blade trumps the need for edge retention and corrosion resistance. You need a hard medium to sharpen it like diamond or boride. These steels are best for knives that dont see impacts and are some of the most difficult to sharpen. A quick check shows the compositions of these steels are nearly identical, so based on that Id expect them to perform similarly (differences in heat treat and blade geometry aside). Actually, Id be thinking 14C28N, but I want to leave stainless out. Steel is a combination of iron and carbon with other elements. Note:Dont bother with anything less than 8Cr in this series. No mainstream companies use SM100, and the niche makers that do usually charge more than $1,000 for knives with SM100 blades. Thanks! But unlike most high-end steels, SPY27 is an easily user-serviceable powder steel. Most vintage tool blades seem to have been made of 1084/1095 or similar, presumably at some <60 Rc hardness that gave the required toughness, and the rules of thumb for sharpening angles are based on those assumptions. But then if you look at an increase of 100 mm in the CATRA test from Maxamet to Rex 121 the toughness only drops 1-2 ft-lbs. It would be really useful to have the raw data that backs the charts that you produce. However, even in this case there is the complicating factor of carbide and abrasive hardness. It has enough water-fighting properties that it can be used in marine environments. The excellent corrosion resistance properties of 14C28N are attributed to the high amounts of chromium in its composition. Its not a regression line, it is just a line through the best steels. The value being slightly different doesnt mean its an outlier or measurement error. By that I dont mean that a better heat treatment is not possible, but that major mistakes in heat treating are avoided. The blackwashed D2 steel blade of the Kershaw Cannonball offers pretty good corrosion resistance for D2. 14C28N steel is not very hard steel which makes it easier to sharpen. What carbon/tool steel would you choose for a survival knife if a PM steel was too expensive? On the other hand, in d2 air-hardness steel, you cant differentially temper the blade-like other high carbon steel because the steel can also be challenging to sharpen. There was significant sharpness loss with 1095, almost none with 440A, and D2 was in between. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Things are similar with resistance to chipping and edge deformation. However, this edge retention comes at the cost of sharpening ease for D2. Have you tested K390 sufficiently to be able to rate it? You will get an ultra-sharp edge with 14C28N knives. Steels with only vanadium carbides have the best balance of properties because the hardness of carbide matters for edge retention but doesnt for toughness. I did a large study of different knives with identical sharpening and edge geometry. High Alloy Tool Steel and High Speed Steel Ratings. In many cases the cost of working with the steel for the knife companies is more significant than the cost of the steel itself. As such, the performance of the steel is entirely dependent upon the steels being utilized. I do not have rust issues with it (as long as I have a good finish) some heavy stonewashed finishes rust easier. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. But it would be my recommendation for applications requiring extreme corrosion resistance. Its hard to say. You said wood is not a particularly abrasive material and in absolute terms that is very true. have extremely high edge retention. Youre right I had to check my spreadsheet. Tough steel can handle impacts without gross chipping or a tip breaking off. I especially appreciate the geometry/edge retention/toughness comparison with photos. Most of these steels are carbon steels, except for CPM MagnaCut (the fancy steel cooked up specifically for knives by Dr. Thomas), which has excellent corrosion resistance. VG 10 Steel, https://knifebasics.com/author/freelancer/, How To Choose Between The 14C28N And The D2, 14c28n Steel Is Good for Knife? For the steels that I rated I give them a single rating rather than a range based on different heat treatments that can be performed. Mostly it has been presented piecemeal with all of the studies that we have done on optimizing heat treatments of different steels like CPM-CruWear, AEB-L, 52100, etc. There one of the best reason that he is highly regarded as a knife designer. Unfortunately a high amount of it decreases strength. The D2, on the other hand, has a thicker and more durable blade that is better suited for tough tasks like chopping wood or prying open cans. 2. Most low alloy tool steels and carbon steels also have fine carbide structures without powder metallurgy processing. Its not bad, but you can find better in the market at the same price. So what is the best steel for knives? Below shows a comparison of carbide structure between D2 and CPM-D2, and then toughness measurements between the conventional and PM versions of CruWear, D2, and 154CM. A few steels have been added since such as MagnaCut and M398. Start comparing steels. The D2 knife blade offers high edge retention and wear resistance. And while youll find it mostly in expensive knives, quite a few approachable M390 blades exist. This isnt exactly how steel works; different properties are difficult to increase without affecting something else. Very acute edges are more brittle but remain sharp for longer and cut very well. Rowens heat treat on ESEE knives that use 1095 is exceptional; KA-BARs is less so. the following is not a critique, just a few thoughts to maybe put the relationships into a wider perspective and point to additional dimensions. High wear resistance is not particularly necessary when only performing chopping, and its good ease in sharpening helps when having to restore the edges. I was guessing 5.5 based on your rating of CPM-154. And a label: AEB-L. If you want for best steel 14c28n and others steel then you can ready 14c28n vs 420hc review. 1060 Using 10 dps sharpening (20 degrees inclusive on the chart) leads to about 5x the edge retention of 25 dps. Spyderco is the only production company using this steel, though Michael Gavik of Gavko knives produced a number of customs in LC 200N. For high wear resistance and edge retention you want a large amount of hard carbides. 8am-5pm Saturday. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/10/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-2/ This is a non-powder Japanese steel used primarily in Spyderco knives. Note just because a blade is made from the premium or high-end steels listed above does not automatically mean its better than the lesser steels. are after the ratings. That provides 14% Chromium and offers excellent corrosion resistance. If you purchase this types of knife, without any hassle you can easily re-sharpening. More expensive powder metallurgy steels in this category include M390, CPM-S35VN, Elmax, CTS-XHP, CPM-S30V, and CPM-154. Monday-Friday Yes its very easy to sharpen but it doesnt hold an edge at all. 14C28N vs. D2. The best scenario is when the steel, heat treatment, and geometry are selected for the knife and the use. Steels like CPM MagnaCut, CPM M4, CPM 4V, and CPM CruWear fit in this category. Thanks to Bill Smutz, Alex Topfer, Florian Bachler, Brunhard, Art, Rod H, Sach, Jinny Koh, Jon Duda, Cory Henderson, and UPKnife for becoming Knife Steeel Nerds Patreon supporters! D2 steel Five years ago, S30V had a premium price. 7:00am-5:00pm, 10am-7pm Tuesday - Friday Generally this is code for difficulty in abrading away steel. It confirms what I always suspected and what anyone could have figured out by reading the technical data. This doesnt necessarily mean they have terrible toughness, but they have limitations. CN Vs VG-10 The Japanese steel, VG10 offers slightly higher edge retention but has the same level of hardness as 14C28N. Very much appreciate you. However, I would argue that pure material removal is usually not the limiting step for ease in sharpening. 14c28n is the most popular material for the knife: stainless steel and made by the Swedish company. I would love to see a Tungsten-Carbide blade (like Sandrin is using) and how it compares for Edge Retention, Toughness and Corrosion Resistance especially how it compares to s90v. Time and use have proven this to be quite accurate. How long sharpen? Three main characteristics differentiate steels from one another: corrosion resistance, hardness, and toughness.
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